mjc0961
Pokémon Champion
Founder of PETBN: People for the Ethical Treatment of Brendan's Nuts
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Post by mjc0961 on Dec 6, 2006 0:30:04 GMT -6
Just like daveshn's topic in the fanfic section. This is needed because there are major problems with your rules. Major problems TO THE EXTREME!!Number one: You forgot to put "READ FIRST:" in the title.Number two: I don't think you're allowed to undermine the official rules for the entire forum. Your number four is clearly in contradiction with rule number four of the general rules topic: No necroposting unless it's in the Fan Art, Fan Fiction, or Shameless Plugs sections. We (Recon and I) specifically left out a part saying you can bring back any topic if you have something relevant to say, because as far as n00bs are concerned, anything they have to say is relevant (ex: yeah lol) and it ruins the rule altogether. So please, don't try to undermine the main forum rules. Number three: I strongly disagree to the extreme (TO TEH XTREME!!11!!1) with the "one thread per game series" rule. This makes discussing one game very difficult, and it also makes way for bad spoilers (which will be addressed next). This forum isn't so overrun with active topics that we need such an asinine rule. Maybe it makes sense as far as Pokémon based topics are concerned, but other games? If I want to talk about The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, I'm going to make it its own thread. Then if I want to talk about Phantom Hourglass when that comes out, I'm going to make it its own thread, not necropost (thus breaking the forum rules) in the Twilight Princess thread. If anything, you're creating far more clutter than needed. Plus it's easier to keep spoilers from being accidentally read with separate topics (which I'm getting to right now). Number four: What about spoilers? You're not going to force people to warn others about potential spoilers? I assure you that if someone posts a spoiler for a game without a warning, and someone else is playing it and finds that, flames will ensue. A spoiler warning should be given in a topic title if you intend to talk about spoilers right in the first post, and if there isn't one in the topic title, you should have to clearly say "I HAVE SPOILERS IN THIS POST" and then hide your spoiler by using the same color text as the post background (which is then read by people who want to read it via highlighting the text with their mouse cursors). They alternate from red and blue, so if the last post is red, your post will be blue. If the last post is blue, yours will be red. So if you use these codes, no one will accidentally get more than they bargained for, and no one will kill you. for red posts: [color=330000]YOUR SPOILERS HERE[/color] for blue posts: [color=000033]YOUR SPOILERS HERE[/color] Number five: If you're making forum specific rules, it's about time we had an official ban on half assed and uncompleted fan games (not saying this just because of banov, but his thread is the perfect example of what I'm talking about). No one here really has any interest in your demo after demo where almost nothing change and there's no real progress between demos. If you have a fully completed game that you made and you want to share it with everyone, then by all means, go ahead. But keep your endless slew of demos to yourself: it's little more than spam. That's all I have for now. But don't worry. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.
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Post by bigbboy on Dec 6, 2006 0:57:22 GMT -6
Whew... well that certainly is a mouthful to say the least. I do appreciate it all though, as frankly I know these rules are far from complete. I'll try to address each point as best as I can and in some cases TO THE EXTREME!!!111one!!!2.
1. Thanks for that reminder, that's easy enough to remedy. Enough said.
2 and 3. I went over these rules with Recon via AIM when I first came back. It was actually pretty nice to see that he was glad I hadn't died. Anyway, the idea behind the necroposting thing, and the one topic per game series thing, was to prevent the section from being cluttered with large amounts of redundant topics. The suggest for one one topic per series actually came from Recon himself. So I suppose you'd have to take that up with him. I simply hear the word of god, and I obey it. Personally I know that one topic is far from enough to really get into the discussion that comes with most games. Hopefully, some system can be worked out. As for the Necroposting thing, I figured it might cause a slight uproar, however, it was meant to help tidy up the section a bit, as was the naming convention rule, also Recon's idea by the way.
4. This is something I hadn't actually considered, and I'm very, very glad you brought it up. I'll put in a clause about them ASAP, as I know for a fact that I'd hate to get my game ruined by information I wasn't ready to know. Also thanks for the code, that really helps too.
5. I don't know about Forum specific rules... these were only meant for the section... which I suppose could be defined as a forum within a forum, but who's really counting? I do support the idea of games created by forum members. By all means I'd love to see more of them. I do kind of agree though that releasing demos without any real changes does get old after a while. However, that doesn't mean I'm against demos themselves. Sure they might be a bit disappointing, but they do draw interest. The Final Fantasy 12 demo disk for example. It raised our hopes, just to have Sony crush them into the dust by constantly pushing back the release date. That didn't mean people weren't excited though. However I don't think more than one demo of a game is really necessary before a full version release. If a demo is released, the person who released it should use any feedback they got from that demo to ensure they have a better final product. A demo, should be just that, a demonstration of what the game will be like. You don't necessarily have to put plot points into it, just show people how the game will be played, maybe briefly introduce concepts and characters, then create a final based on comments and feedback. Demos are part of the process of making games great. No one can provide feedback about a game they haven't played, after all.
Whew... you really have given me a lot to consider though. Please, if you have any other suggestions, don't be hesitant about them.
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mjc0961
Pokémon Champion
Founder of PETBN: People for the Ethical Treatment of Brendan's Nuts
EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME PRINCESS!
Posts: 2,977
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Post by mjc0961 on Dec 6, 2006 4:55:43 GMT -6
1. Thanks for that reminder, that's easy enough to remedy. Enough said. Apparently not, because you still screwed up. It reads like this: 2 and 3. I went over these rules with Recon via AIM when I first came back. It was actually pretty nice to see that he was glad I hadn't died. Anyway, the idea behind the necroposting thing, and the one topic per game series thing, was to prevent the section from being cluttered with large amounts of redundant topics. The suggest for one one topic per series actually came from Recon himself. So I suppose you'd have to take that up with him. I simply hear the word of god, and I obey it. Personally I know that one topic is far from enough to really get into the discussion that comes with most games. Hopefully, some system can be worked out. The only problem is that we currently DON'T have the section cluttered with large amounts of redundant topics. The only ones there are for Pokémon games (not Zelda as I used for an example, so making one unified Zelda topic doesn't reduce any potential clutter). Furthermore, these Pokémon topics are, for the most part, currently prohibited for posting due to the main necroposting rule. However, by undermining this, you're giving members the right to bring back the few topics you didn't want here in the first place. Basically you're saying "We want to stop lots of useless topics about favorite Pokémon teams and random battle situations and favorite pokémon as pet, so from now on, don't make any more topics for an individual game, but please feel free to revive any of the topics we just said we don't want here." See the problem? You're not reducing any clutter, only making things more confusing and allowing the very tiny amount of clutter that would be dead to be revived. First, I did mean this specific section. And I'm talking about, once again, banov's topic. Perfect example of what shouldn't be allowed. He releases a demo, someone tells him something like "I think this meter should be on this side of the screen", then banov does that and releases a new demo where the only change is the moved meter. That's not called demoing a game: that's alpha testing. A demo is a small portion of the game playable so you can see how the game plays. Get a feel for the action. A good example of a demo is, like you said, the FF12 demo. You get a chunk of the game to play in order to decide if you want the full version. But what I'm asking here is a ban on what banov's doing. He started the damn topic with nothing for us to play, which in and of itself is spam. And then all he gives us are pissy "demos" which is actually just a bunch of alpha tests. This shouldn't be allowed. We aren't a game testing community. On a different note, I find your eagerness to push your responsibilities off onto me to be quite disturbing. If we come to you, a moderator, with our concerns, and you know you need to consult with Recon before doing anything... That's YOUR job to do, not mine. You can show Recon this topic, or tell him what kinds of feedback you're getting from members in your own words, but don't just say "I can't be assed to do my job, go ask Recon yourself." Screw that. When my name is on the list of moderators for this section, I will talk to Recon about it. But right now, it's not. Yours is. So do your own talking to Recon about any concerns members have with these rules. Because we aren't going away if you don't.
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Post by daveshn on Dec 6, 2006 7:03:22 GMT -6
I'm a bit confused by that one topic per game series rule. Are you saying that there should be only one topic for all Zelda games, another one for all Mario games, another one for all Warcraft games, etc?
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mjc0961
Pokémon Champion
Founder of PETBN: People for the Ethical Treatment of Brendan's Nuts
EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME PRINCESS!
Posts: 2,977
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Post by mjc0961 on Dec 6, 2006 7:04:13 GMT -6
Yep, that's what he's saying.
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Post by bigbboy on Dec 6, 2006 8:48:55 GMT -6
There, the first one has been fixed. It should now read as READ FIRST: The rules
Secondly, yes I see your point about the necroposting thing. I'll talk to Recon and Razek, then modify it as they suggest.
Thirdly, I can't make any promises, but I'll see if I can sway Recon into reconsidering the one topic per game series thing. Like I said, I don't particularly like it, however the final say goes to Recon. If I can't get him to change his mind, well then you'll just have to live with it seeing as the responsibility for things such as that, as you have said in your very bluntly worded final paragraph, are my responsibility. If Recon doesn't change his mind, well... that's on him really, seeing as he's technically my boss. I'm actually the lowest spot on the moderator ladder in my yellowyness.
Finally, yes releasing a bunch of alpha tests is a waste of time. A demo should be just a demo. I'll modify the rule to include this concern.
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mjc0961
Pokémon Champion
Founder of PETBN: People for the Ethical Treatment of Brendan's Nuts
EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME PRINCESS!
Posts: 2,977
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Post by mjc0961 on Dec 6, 2006 9:21:38 GMT -6
Just remember to point out to Recon that only the random Pokémon game threads are causing clutter and that most are legally dead now thanks to no necroposting and he should see why rules 3 and 4 are harmful to us. And I'm personally willing to talk to Recon myself about this if needed, but telling me to do all while you did nothing was what cheesed me off there. You talk to him, and if you have trouble explaining it, or he doesn't get it, then I'll step in and say "okay, this is what I mean here."
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Post by bigbboy on Dec 6, 2006 9:37:55 GMT -6
Thank you. That's actually what I kind of meant in the first place. I'm sorry if that isn't how it came across.
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Post by daveshn on Dec 6, 2006 12:21:50 GMT -6
I'm a bit confused by that one topic per game series rule. Are you saying that there should be only one topic for all Zelda games, another one for all Mario games, another one for all Warcraft games, etc? Yep, that's what he's saying. Wow, that's dumb. BB, when you talk to Recon, please add that I am against the idea as well.
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Post by bigbboy on Dec 7, 2006 0:20:07 GMT -6
Rules 3 and 4... are no longer with us. The numbering has been changed to reflect this. Hopefully now things should be okay. If anyone has anymore problems well... tell me for the love of god! I'm not perfect and there are still things I'm sure I haven't considered.
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mjc0961
Pokémon Champion
Founder of PETBN: People for the Ethical Treatment of Brendan's Nuts
EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME PRINCESS!
Posts: 2,977
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Post by mjc0961 on Dec 7, 2006 9:03:09 GMT -6
Let's see... No more one topic per series problem, and no more necroposting problem on top of it. Required spoiler coverage, and restrictions on using this section to alpha-test your homemade games.
Looks like everything is in order now. Good job, bigbboy.
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Post by bigbboy on Dec 7, 2006 18:39:05 GMT -6
Thank you. Hopefully things will run smoothly now, and we can get back to the main purpose of this place. Sweet, delicious gaming and gaming related discussion...
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Post by Cabi.net on Feb 12, 2011 15:41:30 GMT -6
Bumping this thread.
Does anyone have any rules to suggest? I am open for recommendations. I'll be revising the rules over the next couple of days.
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Post by Zombie Clown on Feb 12, 2011 18:43:46 GMT -6
hmmm. Well Can we organise us up some sub forums for this? You know one for each console Ie. (pc/mac, Xbox/360, Play Station1/2/3, Nintendo Wii/DS/3DS/GBA) That kinda thing that way it limits the clutter and we can clear all the useless ones in this forum area.
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Post by Cabi.net on Feb 12, 2011 18:54:06 GMT -6
I can't do that. Even if I could I wouldn't. The Games section is too quiet of a place. There is no need for it. Most sections would be too inactive.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
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