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Post by chaoman45 on Jan 20, 2009 2:18:50 GMT -6
It was interesting that it was temp-locked on the premise that it encouraged spam not only there but on the rest of the forum. It was also interesting that when some people were put into the spotlight to defend their thesis, some couldn't think of justifiable reasons to back their assertion. If it's intelligent discussion DemonicChocobo wants, that's exactly what I say he should get. During this week, we shall discuss our reasoning CIVILLY and INTELLIGENTLY as to whether we really do need a spam thread. Obviously making a decision based upon nothing more than personal witness and not testimony, an argument over an issue, DemonicChocobo can’t exactly play “judge” in this event.
Please note that this isn't a substitute spam lounge, but rather, a persuasive topic in where we discuss its course. So not only could this possibly make it into the timeline if there's an actual debate (with your names included also... maybe), but this could also indicate the future of a spam thread. I’ll start off:
Ridding the forum of a spam thread might have negative effects. No matter how much somebody chants “I prefer quality over quantity”, you’re going to have the same continuous efforts of some individual trying to conjure up some spam. The Spam Lounge is a place to be retarded, because obviously people in the past on other sections of the forum have made it very clear themselves that they frown upon sporadic spam. Just re-read the timeline. People had issues with others for spamming and if we lock the thread forever, how will that solve anything? Obviously putting up in the rules “No Spamming” hasn’t had such a wondrous effect as the mods hoped it would. Many other threads have failed because of lack of interest, people grew out of spamming, etc. and were locked. Tell me, did locking those very threads actually solve the inevitable few that WANT to spam? If you allow it in one place and one place only, then they have no excuse for being so comparatively stupid outside of that thread. By at least attempting to tell others that they have some outlet without strict protocol and members who frown upon spam, you give off the impression that we aren’t here to be hardasses all the time.
Now, I do understand that there HAVE been cases of spam outside of the actual Spam Lounge, and no, I don’t condone nor do I defend it. I notice that without spam posts, we also might see a decrease in member activity, something we JUST got after being quiet for some time now. We don’t’ need to ruin that, despite the fact that you could single out others YOU deem as the true problem-causers. A mod said so himself that the rules would just have to be enforced more, and a task of a moderator is to maintain order as well as fun! So because there are a few culprits, that means you’re willing to risk the fact that spam is inevitable, it will happen no matter the existence of a Spam Lounge, and just leave it as a borderline punishment for those who ACTUALLY played by the books and only confined their spam in the proper place here? Just thought I’d add this somewhere.
You don’t want to read the Spam Lounge? Don’t visit it. That’s a universal ideal on the forums. I’m not entirely too fond of gaming discussion as some people are, but you don’t see me go “This forums sucks. Tear it down; I don’t want to see updates from it anymore”. You aren’t obligated to view the thread, not what’s going on. Not even the moderators, because obviously if a problem arises, the almighty report button comes into play. Just because a particular person isn’t fond of it doesn’t mean that this ideology is agreeable and applies to the rest of the forum.
I can understand the justification behind both locking this thread and why some members put in a “last spam”. How could anybody possibly encourage that we give out explanations and because not everybody gave a “good enough” reason and thought of this thread going down and make it out to be such a horrid action? No, I’m not saying anybody in this case was wrong, but come on, what did you expect? If the future of the Spam Lounge looked bleak, then people would obviously resort to getting that “last spam” in because they foresaw the outcome. If they did it anywhere else, I guarantee one of the members would tell the “spammer” that he was going to the naughty step because of a picture that was posted. Albeit, some of the defenses for the thread were a bit… thoughtless, but in the end it’s made out to be as if they had absolutely no say in it whatsoever other than an LOLcat tribute.
No matter what you decide, there are going to be rogue spammers, and even the spam in question isn’t as bad as Lance or CATZEN’s, and you veterans know EXACTLY what I mean by that. I say let it thrive and stay open because it’s not like getting a +1 means anything. If you close the thread, there’s the matter of negative outcomes.
Discuss.
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Post by Lord of the Fire! on Jan 20, 2009 13:56:40 GMT -6
What I think the spam lounge shoud stay because without it the spam would go somewhere else. It's also a place where anyone can act stupid. Without it the forum kinda gets a litle boring. I don't think getting rid of the spam lounge is going to affect forum spam at all. There's no connection between spam before the spam lounge and after. Does any mod have any data proof that spam has increased? Spam is going to happen with or without the spam lounge. There was spam before the spam lounge and after. You can't stop it and it's pointless to try. Locking threads won't help. So I think the spam lounge shouls stay. You need hard core evidents to support your cuase to lock the spam lounge. I now rest my case.
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Post by abizarro on Jan 20, 2009 14:02:52 GMT -6
Those are some very good points Chaoman and i would probably say that i was with you on most of them but at the moment I'm not sure which side of the argument i land on. So instead of arguing my side in this topic (as i don't have one) i will instead offer my opinions on the subject and probably pick a side by the end. I think the first place to start should be at the beginning IE. the first topic in the post; "if you ever feel the urge to spam, do it here! spam all you want, from post with just spaces, to 52 dashes (-). necrpoposts might be allowed (with consent from a mod) to a certain extent. so to kick it of: " There was a couple of things i found that where less that perfect about the first post: Firstly intent, the intent of this specific topic is quite a hard thing to describe because its purpose changed. At the beginning people saw it as a place to spam and this was seen as OK at the time to the mods because they assumed this wouldn't be a big thing, "I don't like it, but like Rick, I don't exactly care either. Just try not to go overboard and it'll be OK" which sadly wasn't the case. After this the argument then became, "if there is a spam topic then spam on other parts of the forum will decrease", and the logical counter argument being, "if you allow people to spam then it won't be long before it spreads IE. give them an inch they will take a foot". I'll start with the argument for the spam lounge, that if people have a place to spam then they won't spam in other places, but the problem with spam is that most people (unless they are trying to) don't realize when they are spamming so to create a spam lounge for these people would be impossible, which is shown by the fact that only one of the "spam locks" i placed on certain topics was broken and that was only a misunderstanding. And the counter argument, spam only begets more spam, which i don't believe is true, the spam in the spam lounge wasn't compatible with the spam on other parts of the forum IE the spam lounge spam was just irrelevant gibberish and the spam found in other threads was more relevant, "whens the next picture" but still spam as that question appeared repeatedly in a row. Secondly, this is a point on which we don't agree choaman, "it’s not like getting a +1 means anything". This statement i believe to be untrue as this forum is based on a ranking system which was put in place to encourage forum goers to post but doesn't take into account the content of posts. Quite a few people on this forum see the thousand post master rank not as a prize for 1,000 worthwile posts but as mountain to be climbed with whatever tools are at hand and i should know as it was the primary reason i got about 500 posts in a month and over 100 in a day (the hundred posts was however due to missing two weeks of the forum and i did try to make most of the posts intelligent). While this wasn't the case for most people in the spam lounge, as it was numerously stated that people wished the plus ones to be disabled in the spam lounge, i can't help but feel that +1s were one of the reasons that the spam lounge grew so popular. Moving on to the content of the spam lounge. There were a few different types of "Spam" in the spam lounge. First there was what was stated in goomans first post, "post with just spaces, to 52 dashes (-)" or just SPAM, which was clearly spam, served no purpose, could be nothing else and wasn't ashamed to be just spam. Secondly there was more clever spam, "yes the iPatch is a 99GB storage device/eye patch", which again served the same purpose as the first point but was more clever. Finally, there were music videos, which whilst not spam did not fit anywhere else in the forum (although there may now be a youtube thread as the spam lounge is now closed). The mood in the Spam lounge. The general mood in the spam lounge was quite light hearted and allowed others to talk to each other and not have a certain topic in mind. This was most likely were some of the aims DC had for the spam lounge and the reason it stayed open so long. Contribution to the forum. The contribution to the forum is somewhat the same as the mood in the forum, the spam lounge made the forum a better place by giving the members a place for lighthearted and irrelevant chat without leaving the forum. The end of the spam lounge. The reason for the spam lounges closure, DC threatened to lock the thread in the hope that "at least half of the people that frequent this topic would stop for a second and attempt to intelligently defend this topic" but sadly this wasn't the case most of those in the spam lounge, as chaoman said, saw the topics closure and assumed it was inevitable so they squeezed in a last post. I think the reason for the forum goers not defending one of the favourite topics was twofold. Firstly they didn't think they could express a good enough reason to keep the thread open (something which i am trying to do in this post). Secondly and more importantly they fear the mods because the moderators are a higher rank on the forum than the regular members (clearly shown by the stars beside their name). Some of the newer forum goers are intimated by this and may be afraid that one false word against a mod and they will be banned, a threat which some would take quite seriously as the memory of a banning is still a fresh thought in our heads, and i have heard it mentioned several times. Another point on the same topic is that, no offense SJ, but a mod yelling "Lock this! Lock this and fast!" doesn't allay these fears. Now onto spam as a whole on the forum as i believe it does have some relevance here. Please note that this is just spam that i have seen and that may not be happening anymore. As the spam on the forum as a whole is quite varying i shall break it down and hopefully give some ideas as to how to minimize it. The first type of spam i have seen and probably the most common is the spam in the art thread that asks "when Will the next picture be ready". This question on its own is a valid one and i have no quarrel with it what annoys me is when its asked in secession or asked when the question has already been answered earlier in the thread. A little tip is that if you have a question at least check through the page your on to see if its answered. The second type of spam is a constant repetition of the same question after every post. Heres a tip of you ask a question don't be so impatient as to assume that the next reply will answer it, there is a nice community on this forum and chances are that someone will see your question and try to answer it or at least highlight it again. The third type of spam i have seen are when nothing is really said. One word posts are frowned apon not because they are one word but because they do not add something to the discussion, a one word post could change the tide of a discussion, the rule is against saying something that adds nothing to the discussion and just because you added one word so its not a one word post doesn't make it worthy. Ease of spam. Spam is so widespread because what is thought of as spam is very easy to do. Topics such as this one are hard, six other people have seen this topic other than me and only one person has replied and probably because they saw chaomans post and thought i can't match that and maybe some saw it and thought I'm not reading all that.The point is not too best the post before you in a topic like this but to "discuss our reasoning CIVILLY and INTELLIGENTLY" in other words say what you think should happen with the spam lounge (i should answer mine at the ed of this) and say why you want this to happen. The conclusion, I believe that the spam lounge should come back as it was a place for irrelevant chat, some good youtube videos, and because it brought the forum together. However should it come back i believe that some changes should be made such as a more definitive description of what the spam lounge is to be used for (which we should have if this topic picks up).
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Post by Lord of the Fire! on Jan 20, 2009 14:19:09 GMT -6
i agree wth you. Is there stastistic evidence if spam icreasing?
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Post by Mucho The Soybean Lover on Jan 20, 2009 14:59:43 GMT -6
I think that the Spam Lounge should stay. It is a place to go when you are bored and feel like being stupid. You can post images/videos that entertain people. Without it, the forum is a little boring (espicially with the lack of updates recently). Finally, the Spam Lounge is a great place for small discussions and making friends.
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Post by PacoTheTaco on Jan 20, 2009 17:04:27 GMT -6
when I first joined this fourm, the first fourm I've ever joined, I saw the Spam Lounge and it peaked my interest. I read through some of the pages, and I began to learn about the many members of the fourm. I felt welcomed, I felt joy, I felt as if I belonged here. That thread was like a safe haven from the presures of daily life. the Spam Lounge is more than a thread to release pent up spam, it is a thread were one can express them selves, get to know people better, and more importantly, have fun. and finaly, the Spam Lounge is a thread were the world seems to melt away in a colorful mess of LolCats and Youtube videos. save the Spam Lounge! (I tried to make it as inteligent as possible)
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Post by Lord of the Fire! on Jan 20, 2009 17:28:47 GMT -6
anyway withought the spam lounge members would hang out in the storyline disccusion and use it as a spam lounge. When theres no updates people hang in the storyline threads.
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Post by abizarro on Jan 20, 2009 20:33:25 GMT -6
anyway withought the spam lounge members would hang out in the storyline disccusion and use it as a spam lounge. When theres no updates people hang in the storyline threads. Something i fear has already happened and not even a day after the thread was reopened. I suppose that was one of the uses of the spam lounge, to give regular forum goers a place where they could post often when the rest of the forum is at a lul. In that way it stopped spam in the other threads because when there was no where else to post there was always the spam lounge but some of the regulars on the forum wouldn't be satisfied by that one post. One point i forgot to make earlier is that one of the reasons the spam lounge was locked was that DC wanted to encourage intellegence in the thread but i don't seee what kind of intellegent conversation could happen in a thread that was designed solely for spam or was it meant that DC just wanted to see an intellegent defence of the topic? EDIT: i was reading through the spam lounge and Rick (Xeros) said that spam did increase when the spam lounge was formed, sorry to burst your bubble there Lord of The Fire! but remember correlation doesn't mean causation it could merely be a coincidence.
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Post by chaoman45 on Jan 20, 2009 23:01:27 GMT -6
Secondly, this is a point on which we don't agree choaman, "it’s not like getting a +1 means anything". This statement i believe to be untrue as this forum is based on a ranking system which was put in place to encourage forum goers to post but doesn't take into account the content of posts. Quite a few people on this forum see the thousand post master rank not as a prize for 1,000 worthwile posts but as mountain to be climbed with whatever tools are at hand and i should know as it was the primary reason i got about 500 posts in a month and over 100 in a day (the hundred posts was however due to missing two weeks of the forum and i did try to make most of the posts intelligent). While this wasn't the case for most people in the spam lounge, as it was numerously stated that people wished the plus ones to be disabled in the spam lounge, i can't help but feel that +1s were one of the reasons that the spam lounge grew so popular. By that, I meant that getting +1 post wouldn’t really reward you in any way, other than to boost rank. You don’t get any cookies, new secret forums, etc. for making a certain amount of posts and yes, I know people think of post 1,000 at very least as an accomplishment, but part from that, post count isn’t an indicator of much because of the varying demographics. People think Recon Dye was active on the forums because they see he had over 6,000, when in reality he doesn’t even have a history of over 500. New people automatically assume that higher post counts means that a person is more respected and thus, more “powerful” on the forums. I could cite somebody who made crappy posts to reach 1,000. Veterans would see this user as a bothersome retard who couldn’t spell Brendan correctly, but somebody unaware would see him as a decent member. No matter what misconceptions are made, post quantities are nothing more than opinionated and fallacies, underserving a purpose not even meant for it.
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Post by abizarro on Jan 20, 2009 23:31:27 GMT -6
i see what you mean Chaoman but while your opinion may be shared by the other veterans of the forum i don't think it is by some of the newer members. So my point wasn't that +1s were important but that some of the members thought they were.
An idea i have been pondering since replying earlier is the effect of the YGOTAS mention of pokemon-x. Before that mention to find pokemon-x you had to have a keen interest in pokemon and usually a knowledge of sprit(e)ing. YGOTAS is the reason i found the site and without it i wouldn't know what a sprite comic was, i can't draw or rip sprites and unless i really devoted myself to it i'd find it very hard to write a fan fic. My point is that to give a knowledgeable opinion of the subject you must first know the subject. I didn't mention it before because there isn't much that can be done about this but i thought that a lack of knowledge of the subject matter could be a reason for some spam (it would be a very specific type of spam and there isn't much of it but i felt that it should at least be brought to people attention).
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Post by chaoman45 on Jan 20, 2009 23:58:03 GMT -6
your opinion may be shared by the other veterans of the forum i don't think it is by some of the newer members. So my point wasn't that +1s were important but that some of the members thought they were. Which is what I said. An idea i have been pondering since replying earlier is the effect of the YGOTAS mention of pokemon-x. Before that mention to find pokemon-x you had to have a keen interest in pokemon and usually a knowledge of sprit(e)ing. YGOTAS is the reason i found the site and without it i wouldn't know what a sprite comic was, i can't draw or rip sprites and unless i really devoted myself to it i'd find it very hard to write a fan fic. My point is that to give a knowledgeable opinion of the subject you must first know the subject. I didn't mention it before because there isn't much that can be done about this but i thought that a lack of knowledge of the subject matter could be a reason for some spam (it would be a very specific type of spam and there isn't much of it but i felt that it should at least be brought to people attention). Naturally people want to be funny and since not everybody understands those jokes with science, politics, etc., LOLcats and Youtube Poop is the best they can do. They want to fit in, a sense of belonging. Obviously we can see that we’ve historically retained a few more when we DID have a Spam Thread. I remember around the time SeriousJuipter, even Kenshinkkusinagi01 came a few others followed. I thought they were promising to the forum’s future, but they left. Now, with the advertising of this comic on YGOTAS, we have seen many more new members, including you, and I can easily identify many more members than I could before. Maybe the Spam Lounge was just a coincidence, but I have also noticed people such as Lord of the Fire posts more rather than lurks, because I thought of him as a come-and-go infrequent poster at first. Now, I see him traveling around. This thread itself is proof that the Spam Lounge created a sense of belonging in some members. tl;dr= I agree with your claims.
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Post by DemonicChocobo on Jan 21, 2009 0:05:25 GMT -6
I approve of this thread. Anywhooo, not here to act as a judge or a moderator, just here to discuss just like everyone else. I'll try my best to keep my post neutral too. Many other threads have failed because of lack of interest, people grew out of spamming, etc. and were locked. Tell me, did locking those very threads actually solve the inevitable few that WANT to spam? If you allow it in one place and one place only, then they have no excuse for being so comparatively stupid outside of that thread. By at least attempting to tell others that they have some outlet without strict protocol and members who frown upon spam, you give off the impression that we aren’t here to be hardasses all the time. I'd like to point out for the longest time, my mentality was that if the original purpose of a thread died out, yet interesting conversation was still going on, then that conversation, though off-topic would be a-okay.(I think I even made a post about this somewhere on the Gaming forum a while ago.) This was until I started reading General Discussion more frequently. I began to notice something, well, two things. 1. The original purpose of multiple topics were being arbitrarily killed off for the sake of off-topic discussion. 2. There were a few cases where when the main purpose of a topic died and no one really had anything left to say. Ordinarily, such a topic would just die and fade into history correct? However, I began noticing topics where the original purpose had completely died out for months, but apparently enough people didn't want it dead so they were pretty much FORCING discussion to keep it going. This forced discussion is usually off-topic, pointless, and it's really quite clear that it's being posted in simply to keep it in a state of being posted in. It's pretty much a...well...zombie. Now, this next part may not seem relevant and I'm going to say something that's probably gonna make you guys think "Why is that guy even a mod then?!" but meh, whatever. You see, I consider myself a bad moderator. A terrible one. I am not used to being a moderator. I have a serious lack of confidence and find it hard to stand by any action I take. For the longest time, you'll notice that I pretty much remained aloof, not using my power, not attempting to moderate at all. I just let everything go. Then, as I said, I took a closer look at General Discussion. I don't know if it's right for me to say this, but I felt embarrassed. The General Discussion was pretty much a garbage dump compared to everywhere else on the forum. It was then that I started taking action and actually started locking topics. My decision to lock these topics was admittedly the combined result of encouragement from both my fellow mods, and other members. In the end, it was my choice, though, and I can't really tell you if my actions solved anything. I don't know. I did what I did and that's all there is too it. :/ You don’t want to read the Spam Lounge? Don’t visit it. That’s a universal ideal on the forums. I’m not entirely too fond of gaming discussion as some people are, but you don’t see me go “This forums sucks. Tear it down; I don’t want to see updates from it anymore”. You aren’t obligated to view the thread, not what’s going on. Not even the moderators, because obviously if a problem arises, the almighty report button comes into play. Just because a particular person isn’t fond of it doesn’t mean that this ideology is agreeable and applies to the rest of the forum. I don't know if this is addressed to me in particular, but I really have nothing against the Spam Lounge. I hardly ever read it. I even said I was okay with it. It's just that I noticed an increase in spam posts that gradually increased during the Spam Lounge's course. I'm nearly certain that there was a correlation, but was kind of hesitant to take action. It wasn't until another mod came in that I decided to try some kind of action against the Lounge. but in the end it’s made out to be as if they had absolutely no say in it whatsoever other than an LOLcat tribute. I never really considered that and while it wasn't my intention, I can't say with certainty that it is untrue. The mood in the Spam lounge. The general mood in the spam lounge was quite light hearted and allowed others to talk to each other and not have a certain topic in mind. This was most likely were some of the aims DC had for the spam lounge and the reason it stayed open so long. Contribution to the forum. The contribution to the forum is somewhat the same as the mood in the forum, the spam lounge made the forum a better place by giving the members a place for lighthearted and irrelevant chat without leaving the forum. . It is here where I will attempt to make the case for the "The Spam Lounge is causing spam" argument. As you just said, it promotes a light hearted mood throughout the entire forum. While I prefer this over a hostile mood(And believe me, this forum has been through VERY hostile times.) when you become too "light hearted" you also become careless. And carelessness is definitely going to create careless posts. It's not the best argument in the world, but I just wanted to put that out. Firstly they didn't think they could express a good enough reason to keep the thread open (something which i am trying to do in this post). Secondly and more importantly they fear the mods because the moderators are a higher rank on the forum than the regular members (clearly shown by the stars beside their name). Some of the newer forum goers are intimated by this and may be afraid that one false word against a mod and they will be banned, a threat which some would take quite seriously as the memory of a banning is still a fresh thought in our heads, and i have heard it mentioned several times. I don't really like it, but the implication is there, and I have intentionally made a point not to correct it. However, I might as well say it: Us mods are not as wrathful as you think. Nor do we have the direct power to ban anyone. Recon does. In order for someone to be banned, Recon himself must be convinced that the user should be banned. Another thing you should know is that we moderators are reasonable(At least I like to think I am, but hey, who knows? I could be wrong.) and will not ban you for some silly reason. Now onto spam as a whole on the forum as i believe it does have some relevance here. Please note that this is just spam that i have seen and that may not be happening anymore. As the spam on the forum as a whole is quite varying i shall break it down and hopefully give some ideas as to how to minimize it. The first type of spam i have seen and probably the most common is the spam in the art thread that asks "when Will the next picture be ready". This question on its own is a valid one and i have no quarrel with it what annoys me is when its asked in secession or asked when the question has already been answered earlier in the thread. A little tip is that if you have a question at least check through the page your on to see if its answered. The second type of spam is a constant repetition of the same question after every post. Heres a tip of you ask a question don't be so impatient as to assume that the next reply will answer it, there is a nice community on this forum and chances are that someone will see your question and try to answer it or at least highlight it again. The third type of spam i have seen are when nothing is really said. One word posts are frowned apon not because they are one word but because they add something to the discussion, a one word post could change the tide of a discussion, the rule is against saying something that adds nothing to the discussion and just because your added one word so its not a one word pos doesn't make it worthy. This really is a well-phrased summary(With the exception of the somewhat confusing final sentences) of the various problem posts on this forum. I think if we are more aware of what they are, then maybe we can avoid them, so I hope everyone reads this part. Ease of spam. Spam is so widespread because what is thought of as spam is very easy to do. Topics such as this one are hard, six other people have seen this topic other than me and only one person has replied and probably because they saw chaomans post and thought i can't match that and maybe some saw it and thought I'm not reading all that.The point is not too best the post before you in a topic like this but to "discuss our reasoning CIVILLY and INTELLIGENTLY" in other words say what you think should happen with the spam lounge (i should answer mine at the ed of this) and say why you want this to happen. To tell you the truth, I regretted using the word "intelligent" in my closing post the moment I made the post, but decided not to edit it out. I do agree that topics like this and seeing walls of text can be intimidating.
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Post by chaoman45 on Jan 21, 2009 0:43:45 GMT -6
I'd like to point out for the longest time, my mentality was that if the original purpose of a thread died out, yet interesting conversation was still going on, then that conversation, though off-topic would be a-okay.(I think I even made a post about this somewhere on the Gaming forum a while ago.) Without a spam thread, it limits what kinds of posts can be made. If we abandon the idea behind a spam thread, we can’t say with a straight face that making stupid posts in an already-off-topic thread would be anywhere near acceptable. It’s not even the off-topic spam I’m concerning this with, but more to do with the fact that the spam still needs the label of “interesting” in order to not be in risk of any infraction whatsoever. This was until I started reading General Discussion more frequently. I began to notice something, well, two things. 1. The original purpose of multiple topics were being arbitrarily killed off for the sake of off-topic discussion. 2. There were a few cases where when the main purpose of a topic died and no one really had anything left to say. Ordinarily, such a topic would just die and fade into history correct? However, I began noticing topics where the original purpose had completely died out for months, but apparently enough people didn't want it dead so they were pretty much FORCING discussion to keep it going. This forced discussion is usually off-topic, pointless, and it's really quite clear that it's being posted in simply to keep it in a state of being posted in. It's pretty much a...well...zombie. 1. I understand that, but can we say that the spam outside of the Spam Lounge were dependent factors in relation to what was seen? 2. I also understand that. But even without a Spam Lounge, I guarantee that was an inevitability. Maybe not a year ago because it was nowhere near the activity we have now. I’m sure the same instances happened around 2005/2006, no? Whether or not spamming occurred out of the Spam Lounge, we can only assume it was coincidence and blatant disregard to protocol. Then again… somebody could use the celestial teapot analogy and we still wouldn’t precisely determine what the true nature was… You see, I consider myself a bad moderator Faults=imperfect. As one of my friends said, this is also a case which could be applied. It’s to your judgment, not what is necessarily demanded. If people are under the consensus that the Spam Lounge is the ONLY place for spam and anywhere else would be subject to moderating action, I’m sure you’d see a decrease. I’m not saying go shitcrazy and appealing for bans, but rather, lose the crude low self-esteem and be proud, because I respect you as a moderator. Obviously Recon Dye saw potential otherwise you wouldn’t have that mod sticker. In the end, it was my choice, though, and I can't really tell you if my actions solved anything. I don't know. I did what I did and that's all there is too it. :/ I realise that, and it’s not my prerogative to say you were unjust in doing so. I’m not seeking an immediate response or ramification, but rather, a long-term one. It’s like saying that we should have closed down a particular forum just because “it was inactive and unproductive”. Doing so could result in future attempts or even complaints from current members. No matter how much anybody tries, you’ll get spam in your forum somewhere. I don't know if this is addressed to me in particular, but I really have nothing against the Spam Lounge. I hardly ever read it. I even said I was okay with it. It's just that I noticed an increase in spam posts that gradually increased during the Spam Lounge's course. I'm nearly certain that there was a correlation, but was kind of hesitant to take action. It wasn't until another mod came in that I decided to try some kind of action against the Lounge. Not really to you, but to anybody from nobody. This applies to anything else on the internet. We still are unsure of what exactly causes the “outside” spam, so maybe that’s why we need an announcement saying we could keep it open “ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS”. By doing so, you show what is and what isn’t accepted as a forum because not every forum shares a universal definition of anything. One forum might consider posting “lol” and nothing more as a bannable offense whilst another thinks it’s okay to do on a general basis. Apparently not everybody reads the rules, and even if they DO, you can’t really lash out at them. People said Panda constantly spammed (and I’m not trying to single you out, but this is the best example that EVERYBODY will be able to understand). Anybody who actually lashed out at him, I challenge you to go to the rules and find where it specifically identifies some of his posts as spam. I found NOTHING, meaning your attitude to any spammer was actually uncalled for. I can just as easily say that your post didn’t have more than four sentences and it didn’t really contribute to the topic at-hand or that if you didn’t properly utilize the English language, it was spam because it wasn’t “good enough to me”. You see? If you don’t even put it in the rules, then OF COURSE, he would think it was okay to make short two-word posts. You call them spam posts without even clarifying what constitutes as said definition, so as far as he’s concerned, you just pulled what YOU thought was spam out of thin air and punish him because he TRIED being productive yet you expected him to understand what could fly and what couldn’t as if he was a veteran like anybody who’s been here for at least a year. To be honest, we had worse and you probably made Panda feel like crap with what you said; unjustified and illogical to the protocols some of you sourced. But by all means, if there IS something regarding spam, then please enlighten me. So Panda, if you read this, I’m aware that I’m most likely guilty as well and apologize in advance. I never really considered that and while it wasn't my intention, I can't say with certainty that it is untrue. That was my way of saying it seemed unfair to expect people to come up with a logical and intelligent reason on the spot and frowned when they knew it was evident the thread might be closed. It is here where I will attempt to make the case for the "The Spam Lounge is causing spam" argument. As you just said, it promotes a light hearted mood throughout the entire forum. While I prefer this over a hostile mood(And believe me, this forum has been through VERY hostile times.) when you become too "light hearted" you also become careless. And carelessness is definitely going to create careless posts. It's not the best argument in the world, but I just wanted to put that out. Understandable and I can see your logic in that. But like I said, forums work differently and since you’re one of the top dogs here, you shouldn’t be so shy when making a JUST move for the forum. To tell you the truth, I regretted using the word "intelligent" in my closing post the moment I made the post, but decided not to edit it out. I do agree that topics like this and seeing walls of text can be intimidating. Told you that I’d give you intelligent discussion.
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Post by Emily Pink on Jan 21, 2009 12:27:52 GMT -6
Holy jeebus there is no way I'm reading all those posts @_@ Blah.. Anyway I just want to post a few of my thoughts on the matter...
With the spam lounge, I can understand why people enjoy it. It's a place where you can act stupid and normally not have to take any crap for it... It could also be a great place to let off steam and share something funny... In that respect it's a good thing I suppose...
I just plain don't like the spam lounge, because I don't feel it's used properly. I think in essence a SPAM topic is already a stupid idea in name alone. Y'see SPAM by my definition is an off topic or idiotic post such as "I'm new here lol please be nice to me" or "lol wut u said?" the best example of this would be any old n00b that walks by and joins our little forum. (or 80% of panda's posts. No offense intended panda but seriously I consider most of your post to be very spammy) Now spam isn't always caused by a malicious intent to SPAM but more often it's caused by ignorance and immaturity. I'd personally like to see an actual discussion take place there, perhaps if people viewed it as a free discussion thread instead of a spam lounge it may promote a better class of quality posting on the forum.
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Post by abizarro on Jan 21, 2009 16:28:17 GMT -6
Now onto spam as a whole on the forum as i believe it does have some relevance here. Please note that this is just spam that i have seen and that may not be happening anymore. As the spam on the forum as a whole is quite varying i shall break it down and hopefully give some ideas as to how to minimize it. The first type of spam i have seen and probably the most common is the spam in the art thread that asks "when Will the next picture be ready". This question on its own is a valid one and i have no quarrel with it what annoys me is when its asked in secession or asked when the question has already been answered earlier in the thread. A little tip is that if you have a question at least check through the page your on to see if its answered. The second type of spam is a constant repetition of the same question after every post. Heres a tip of you ask a question don't be so impatient as to assume that the next reply will answer it, there is a nice community on this forum and chances are that someone will see your question and try to answer it or at least highlight it again. The third type of spam i have seen are when nothing is really said. One word posts are frowned apon not because they are one word but because they add something to the discussion, a one word post could change the tide of a discussion, the rule is against saying something that adds nothing to the discussion and just because your added one word so its not a one word post doesn't make it worthy. Alright firstly i would like to apologise for that post. whilst it did show my opinions clearly on the subject the problem was as it is when i usually describe anything in depth was that i aimed it at the lowest bracket of intellegence ie. i described everything so as no one would be confused. The problems with that are: (a) it makes a very large post that most people couldn't be bothered reading and would seem quite daunting to some people (b) this is the reason i picked that quote, while i did spell check it i didn't proof read it. what i meat in the last sentence (and ave fixed in the original post) was "One word posts are frowned apon not because they are one word but because they do not add something to the discussion". sorry about that. It is here where I will attempt to make the case for the "The Spam Lounge is causing spam" argument. As you just said, it promotes a light hearted mood throughout the entire forum. While I prefer this over a hostile mood(And believe me, this forum has been through VERY hostile times.) when you become too "light hearted" you also become careless. And carelessness is definitely going to create careless posts. It's not the best argument in the world, but I just wanted to put that out.[quote/] My point wasnt that it made the forum more relaxed it was that it made the forum a friendlier place and more inviting but i see what you mean if the forums become to "friendly" then people would naturally assume that the rules could be bent a little more. i suppose that is the balance you have to keep as a mod, you have to be inviting but authoritarian (may have made that word up). I don't really like it, but the implication is there, and I have intentionally made a point not to correct it. However, I might as well say it: Us mods are not as wrathful as you think. Nor do we have the direct power to ban anyone. Recon does. In order for someone to be banned, Recon himself must be convinced that the user should be banned. Another thing you should know is that we moderators are reasonable(At least I like to think I am, but hey, who knows? I could be wrong.) and will not ban you for some silly reason. sorry if i've misunderstood what you said but you did sort of outline my point. That is the first time i knew only Recon could ban people and I wasn't saying you were wrathful i had just noticed that if someone disagreed with a mod they would usually back down. i do realise that not everyone does this but some people do and that was the point i was trying to highlight. This applies to anything else on the internet. We still are unsure of what exactly causes the “outside” spam, so maybe that’s why we need an announcement saying we could keep it open “ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS”. By doing so, you show what is and what isn’t accepted as a forum because not every forum shares a universal definition of anything. My feeling were the same but on a broader note. I think the rules could do with a new breath of life and more specific details about what is and what is not aceptable mon the forum. Although, as a set of rules for spam goes it would be quite hard to make due to that fact that spam is different in different parts of the forum but i think if a few general rules were put in place then some adhoc rules when necessary the amount a spam would at least decrease. Perhaps a discussion like this one could be put in place for the rules, like the discussion (that isn't used much) for the whole forum or one for each seperate section of the forum (or both).
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